Posts by Cold Steel

48

God said be fruitful and multiply,fill the earth and govern it.

by atomant in

l have a problem with this.lf adam and eve didnt sin the earth would eventually have been full to the brim with perfect human beings.then what every man gets the chop or no more sex?then on the other hand we have the jw's sayingresurrected ones will not be allowed to marry in the earthly new system.. married survivors of armageddon will remain married.

single survivors of armageddon may or may not be allowed to marry.so it seems that people reborn into new system wont be able to procreate.

and married survivors will stay married so l assume that means they can still hanky panky and have babys thats a bit unfair..the earth can only accommodate a maximum number of humans then what for the married couples.

Cold Steel

Well, we'll have to see whether people came from apes. Evolution is simply another religion. If one begins with the assumption of a divine creator, evolution becomes much more difficult to prove. It seems that when one finds a skeleton of, say, Lucy, and says, "Hey, she looks kinda human...she must be one of our ancestors!" that there's a good deal of assumption in that. I saw a pro-evolution documentary not long ago that showed an early human and a long line of his forebears going all the way to the horizon. The camera followed that line, person by person at super speed millions of years ago until it stopped on a bipedal apelike creature completely unlike the human male figure we'd just been looking at. Then we see someone in a small ape suit eating nuts or something in a tree.

Interesting theory...if there's no God, I thought. But if there is, the only thing it proves only that there's a common designer. I've also done some reading and cannot find the solid evidence I'm told is out there. Perhaps it's too complicated for the common man to understand; however, religion isn't based solely on ancient traditions, but also by witnesses. Numerous people have had near death experiences, and they're remarkably consistent regardless of cultural and religious backgrounds. Critics say they're simply delusions brought about by the body's being deprived of oxygen -- or the effects of medicine. But such spur-of-the-moment judgments don't take into account the transfer of actual information, which frequently happens. As someone who's had medical hallucinations, they're very fuzzy and indistinct. There's no 3D, and conversations in dream states are not extended or memorable. Yet there are many rational people who have such experiences and report them with the same detail one might recant a story about a trip to Paris in the Spring!

So far such people are dismissed without consideration, as are the prophets who gave their lives to seal their testimonies. Instead of God being portrayed in many different ways by many different prophets over centuries, God's word to them have been remarkably consistent. Since atheists and evolutionists react essentially like religionists when there are flaws in their beliefs (such as the classic "leap of faith"), I also don't feel the need to have to prove them completely. Christians wouldn't need Christ if there was no Adam or Eve, for if there wasn't a fall, there need not be an atonement.

In my view, it's no contest. There are holes in every belief system, even atheism. The way I see it, there's also a body of evidence that supports many belief systems. I'm willing to wait and see what happens. If you have a different view, fine. It's a free country.

48

God said be fruitful and multiply,fill the earth and govern it.

by atomant in

l have a problem with this.lf adam and eve didnt sin the earth would eventually have been full to the brim with perfect human beings.then what every man gets the chop or no more sex?then on the other hand we have the jw's sayingresurrected ones will not be allowed to marry in the earthly new system.. married survivors of armageddon will remain married.

single survivors of armageddon may or may not be allowed to marry.so it seems that people reborn into new system wont be able to procreate.

and married survivors will stay married so l assume that means they can still hanky panky and have babys thats a bit unfair..the earth can only accommodate a maximum number of humans then what for the married couples.

Cold Steel

Wild_Thing» There is not one single thing in the entire Universe that lasts forever, and there never has been. Not a star, not a planet, not a tree, not a creature, or human.

Nothing that we can detect. Actually, most of the universe is composed of stuff we can't detect.

Matter lasts forever, and though it can change, it can't be annihilated.

And personally, there is nothing scarier to me than an entire planet full to the brim with Jehovah's Witnesses who can't have sex. Let's see them dance and sing the Happy song, then.

Well, the verdict isn't in regarding whether the WTS is the sole purveyor and arbiter of truth in the earth. Based on its history, it was created by men, established by men without any intervention of God. But I tend to agree with the sentiment, though it never specifically says there will be no sex. We only see through a dark, murky glass the things that will be, but they are said to be far beyond the understanding of man.

48

God said be fruitful and multiply,fill the earth and govern it.

by atomant in

l have a problem with this.lf adam and eve didnt sin the earth would eventually have been full to the brim with perfect human beings.then what every man gets the chop or no more sex?then on the other hand we have the jw's sayingresurrected ones will not be allowed to marry in the earthly new system.. married survivors of armageddon will remain married.

single survivors of armageddon may or may not be allowed to marry.so it seems that people reborn into new system wont be able to procreate.

and married survivors will stay married so l assume that means they can still hanky panky and have babys thats a bit unfair..the earth can only accommodate a maximum number of humans then what for the married couples.

Cold Steel

Although the Catholic church views the fall of man in the Garden of Eden as a terrible mistake, the Orthodox church sees it as a necessary step in the ladder of progression. When Jesus was resurrected, he became a being of immense power and glory with a perfect body of both flesh and bone (no blood, which is the corruptable part of man). "For a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see I have."

All men, because of the redemptive power of the atonement, are likewise resurrected in the flesh, from the greatest to the least, but Paul tells us that that not all will be raised to the same glory, for as heavenly bodies differ from earthly bodies, and as the sun, moon and stars differ from one another in glory, "so also is the resurrection." (See I Cor. 15) When all are judged, all will resurrected according to that judgment.

But this is only possible because of the atonement.

If man had not transgressed in the Garden, he would have remained forever with no glory on the earth or throughout the eternities, forever miserable because he knew no good from evil. To understand happiness he had to know sadness; to know joy, he had to understand sorrow. It was all part of the plan of salvation, but the Lord wanted it to be man's decision. He forbade it, but in the next breath said, nevertheless, it's your decision.

John said, speaking of the elect, "For when we see him, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." And since Jesus was resurrected as a perfect being of flesh and bones, man also has that potential.

Adam and Eve were both terrestrial in nature. Their bodies were not perfect because they contained no glory and no power. They were limited only to this world and if they wanted to go somewhere they had to walk. Knowing neither good nor evil, they lacked the ability to progress and grow. And though it never says, it's also unlikely that they could have reproduced. So they were set up to fall, and it had to be their decision.

They were put into their environ with a tree, the fruit of which could make their bodies corruptible. Also there was a fallen archangel to tempt them. They also were given time to themselves. In other words, all the elements were there for it to happen. All Adam and Eve had to do was pull the trigger. But the Lord's intentions were to make them like He, Himself, and this is why the fall had to happen.

13

Jehovah`s Witnesses an Old Testament Religion

by smiddy in

jehovah`s witnesses claim to be a christian religion , however looking at their history , publications ,such as the watchtower and awake mags., their conventions ,international ,regional ,local ,etc.their books pamphlets ,brochures ,etc.etc.

you are hard pressed to find references to the new testament and references to jesus and his ministry .. they seem to be more focused on the old testament , and the god of the old testament.jehovah.

even in their dramas at conventions , international and local events they are pre-occupied with old testament accounts and experiences , and not christian experiences , examples or ,lives to emulate .. they claim to be a christian religion and very seldom do they highlight the name of jesus , or his teachings , they are fixed on the old testament name of jehovah , and what he did in the old testament.

Cold Steel

I've never heard a theology graduate complain about God being a bloodthirsty, genocidal baby killing desert deity. Why? Because they're generally not copying and pasting from atheistic websites.

Theological commentator Jonathan Sherwin points out that since there's no way to scientifically attack God, that atheists resort to the same old attacks on God's character:

Leaving behind the intellectual front, those with a particular disdain for Christianity retreated only to launch an offensive on the moral character of God. Instead of talking about such things as beginnings and designers and all the rest of it, now perhaps some of the thrust is towards what sort of a God is there.
Richard Dawkins, the best-selling author known for his articulate attacks on religion – and Christianity in particular – takes special objection to the character of God found in the Old Testament. Dawkins tells us that “[the] God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction”, before unleashing a torrent of nasty character attributes upon God. Whilst leaving aside claims of the Bible as “fiction” for a later article, the accusation of unpleasantness should be taken very seriously.
Let us be quite clear here, the Bible has some very difficult passages to digest. Many of these are found in the Old Testament and centre on the exploits of Joshua in his handling of the Canaanites.
Cries of ‘Ethnic Cleansing’ and ‘Genocide’ ring out from the towers of atheism. How on earth could you love that same God? How on earth could you say that same God is loving? After all, we rightly condemn the atrocities committed at the hands of the Nazis upon the Jews, or of blood spilled in Rwanda in 1994, so how can the God of the Old Testament not be held to the same standard?
Some of the problematic parts can be found in the book of Joshua. In one such place it is said that Joshua “struck all the land” and “left no survivor.” He is said to have “utterly destroyed all who breathed”. Heavy words. Now to set the scene briefly, we must understand something about Canaanite culture. It was bloodthirsty. Think of a scene from the film 300, but worse. Child sacrifice? Absolutely, it was built in to the heart of the culture. Bestiality? Part of the norm. If we today, part of a nice, civilised, anaesthetised, culture were to be transported back to their day we would most likely break down under sensory overload at the horrors that confronted us.
But surely, you might say, there could be a better way to deal with this than killing everyone. After all, isn’t God supposed to merciful? Well, we read earlier in Genesis that God was patient. In fact, God waited 1,430 years before acting. We also read that this sort of thing wasn’t just a judgement on one people group, and indeed, when the Israelites, God’s own people, got mixed up in some bad things their judgement was equally bad.

Although the Bible never says so, I personally believe that God destroyed Carthage during the Punic wars using the Romans. Although Rome wasn't a perfect society by a long shot, they had a good, solid form of government and they didn't practice human sacrifice. They were trade competitors with Carthage, but as far as they were concerned, it was nothing personal. But the Carthaginians were profligate in their religious practices with ritual prostitution and throwing their infants into the fires of Molech. Atheists, however, are more critical of God than those degenerate peoples he destroyed. And they do it not because they believe in God, but because they believe that if He did exist, His actions would disqualify Him for the job.

But the fallacy of such thinking is obvious. God's critics say if God did exist, He's a monster. But that's a classic non seqitur. Because if God does exist, He knows all things, has all power and knows the hearts of all men. They also ignore the obvious fact that if there is a God, then all men have spirits and continue on after death. If there is no God, then men and animals cease to exist at death and do not live on...in which case this entire debate is meaningless. Nothing has any meaning.

52

Is the WT’s Paradise Earth doctrine a delusion?

by deegee in

the wt’s teaching that humans will live forever on a paradise earth will necessitate that given that there will be no more death, then immortal humans will have to be relocated to other planets in order to prevent the earth from becoming overpopulated.. so how many habitable, earth-like planets are there?more and more habitable, earth-like planets would have to become available on a continuous, never-ending basis ad infinitum as mankind’s population grows given that there will be no more death.. the longevity/sustainability of life on these planets will be limited by the fact that the sun serving these planets will eventually die:https://shar.es/1cko6n.

http://www.space.com/22437-main-sequence-stars.html#sthash.ejbt1xrz.dpuf.

so immortal humans will have to keep moving from planet to planet.

Cold Steel

Happily, the JW's concept of Paradise is flawed. To the early Christians, Parardise was a place where the souls of the righteous await the resurrection. As Clement of Alexandria wrote, "After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of learning or school of the spirits, where everything they did on Earth would be made clear to them." We cannot expect that men can be either saved or damned in ignorance, and many on Earth have died without having heard of Jesus or his gospel. So if they don't hear it here, they must hear it there, as did the thief on the cross.

Even the best of Christians must come to grips with their own lives; their faults, their successes, the good within themselves and the bad. This is reflected in countless near death experiences, where people undergo what's now popularly referred to as "life reviews." Those who have experienced them say it all happens very rapidly, yet they say it is extraordinary comprehensive and in places most unpleasant. Yet it's designed to purge the soul. The more wicked a person is, the more unpleasant the experience. Imagine, if you will, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Saddam and his sons, and many, many others having to constantly relive their mortal existences, witnessing to the last detail the effects of their lives upon others down to the last niggling detail. Of watching each of their victims from the time of their births to the time of their deaths. Of experiencing everything they experienced, feeling everything they felt. And all of this through the entirety of the Millennium!

This, I think, is the fire of Hell. But as Malachi said, it will be a refiner's fire. And though the suffering is intense, it burns away one's wickedness, or sins. When one emerges from it, one is a better person. Thus, King David cries unto the Lord, "for thou shalt not leave my soul in hell."

The JWs see the atonement as restoring man to what he was in Eden, only now everyone will dress for dinner. But that would be a nightmare. Man was created to be much more than that.

3

Old Nick

by Carol1111 in

a friend had some jw's knock at his door and satan was discussed.

my friend kept referring to satan as 'old nick'.

the jw's seemed rather upset by this.

Cold Steel

It annoys JW's if you do not seem to be going along with their view that the debbil is a real entity. They also get annoyed if you refer to their god as jehoober and them as jehubbadubbs.

I imagine it would. "Old Nick" is a colloquial and accepted term for many 19th and 20th century folks and the JWs may resent the tone of familiarity in the reference. They'll just have to get over it. As for the other terms, many Christians refer to the Old Testament God as JEHOVAH, or YHWH. And it would be considered bad form to refer to either as "jehoober" in mixed company. Some consider the terms as sacred.

9

Why don't we have dominion over the animals?

by Coded Logic in

a devout christian had his buttocks mauled by a lion after challenging the big cat to a duel in order to prove the “lord’s power over animals”.. alec ndiwane, who has been described as a “prophet” in african media, was on safari at the kruger national park in south africa when he confronted the pride.. determined to prove to fellow tourists that god would save him, ndiwane is said to have gone into a trance and started speaking in tongues before opening his car door and charging at the lions.. but the lions were quick off the mark and bit him viciously on the backside as he clambered into the vehicle.. a warden managed to scare the big cats off by firing a gun in the air.. “i do not know what came over me,” ndiwane told ghanaweb.. “i thought the lord wanted to use me to show his power over animals.

is it not we were given dominion over all creatures of the earth?” he added.. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6994224/devout-christian-has-buttocks-mauled-by-lions-after-challenging-big-cats-to-a-duel-to-prove-the-lords-power-over-animals.html?cmp=spklr-_-editorial-_-twitter-_-thesunnewspaper-_-20160311-_-news-_-394160343-_-imageandlink.

Cold Steel

My cat 🐱 also wins.

One minute he's fine, the next minute he goes apeshit and I know when to back off! Playing with a full grown cat can be intimidating at times. There's a very fine line between play and predator.

But the Christian did prove we have dominion over the beasts. He went into the pride and told those lions to kiss 💋 his ass, in the name of the Lord.

And one lion did!

27

I am losing

by NoMoreHustle in

i haven't posted anything for a bit, but wanted to express how i am losing this battle.

it has been over 3 years now since i woke up about watchtower.

the battle that i am talking about is the tug of war with my wife (i adore her immensely), watchtower is winning, she simply will not give in to my so-called negative thoughts about the religion that we are in.

Cold Steel

at the end of the day my wife's feelings & relationship are more important to me than anything else ❤

This pretty much says it all. But freeing one's self from the confines of any false belief doesn't require you having to choose between it and one's family. Nor does subversion work very well unless you can replace it with a better spiritual foundation because people need religion as a means of making sense of one's existence. Even atheists need to believe in something, even if it's nothing.

Were you both JWs before you were married or are you converts? If converts, what churches were you members of? Do you still consider yourself a Christian or has your awakening caused you to lose your faith in everything? Also, when you say you're having a tug of war with your wife, what type? How far do you go? When it comes to writing a check to Jehovah's earthly kingdom, is there tension? When it comes to money, dropping yours into the coffers of a false religion must be difficult.

When you two go to the KH together, if you're still going, do you ask "inappropriate" questions? Rock the boat in any way? Does she seem willing to talk about the things that bother you or does she clam up? And finally, has she gone to see the elders yet?

Sorry to hear you're going through this, but I'm happy to hear you're sticking with your family.

24

Please, tell me.

by andrewlya in

hi, i am a christian and i would like to know jehovas witness's belief in god and whether you believe jesus is god.

please, any statements back up with biblical verses,thank you and god bless, in jesus's name.. i am new on here, so please be patient with me :).

Cold Steel

Christianity is plagued with trying to balance the Trinity with the monotheism of the Jews. There's little in the New Testament to clear things up, either. The JWs are not believers in the Trinity; rather, they believe that Jesus was, in premortality, Michael the Archangel, which is purely conjecture. But in Acts and other Christian writings, there seems to be a definite line drawn between Jesus and God. Check out the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7:

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
...
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Any observer could deduce from just this one passage that Jesus and God were two different beings, which is how the JWs read it. So they say, well, if Jesus and God are two different beings, who's the next greatest being in Heaven? Michael the Archangel!

BTW, the above is only one example of differentiations between God and Jesus. Only in the writings of John is the relationship between the Father, Son and Man. JWs also don't believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual personage but, rather, the "active force" of God. In other words, when God commands, the active force is what carries out His will. JWs argue that they are the only Christians who believe in one God. They reason that if the Father is God, then Jesus can't be God, because God told Isaiah He is the only God, and there are no others. If there were others, He said, He would know about it. If I understand the Trinity correctly, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three manifestations of the same being, or entity.

JWs reject that out of hand.

46

Any weapons enthusiasts here?

by Wonderment in

i knew i had a couple of firearms around the house, and one in the car.

however, i didn't realize i had seven, yes, seven of them, when i proceeded to count them.

the reason for that is that i haven't gone to the shooting range in years.

Cold Steel

Heck, sometimes I forget where I even hid them.

I knew a former Arizona prosecutor who told me he had a weapon in every room of his house. I asked a mutual friend, "Don't you think that's a bit extreme?"

"Ordinarily, yes," my friend said, also a prosecutor, "but knowing some of the people he put away, it's not...for him.

Do any of you know of anyone with guns who have been "counseled" to lose them by the presiding elders?

I've been told guns are okay to use for hunting, but not for self defense. I have a friend who's a member of the Apostolic Church of God, and she is wholeheartedly for the Second Amendment. But, she's against using firearms for self defense, believing that God will protect her and her family. Generally, however, God requires that we do all that we can for ourselves before lending His assistance. Anciently, God met many prophets on mountain tops. This was, I think, symbolic of this principle.

My firearms instructor told me the story of an intruder who advanced on a woman who was armed but couldn't bring herself to shoot. But then the woman's 6-year old son came into the room. Smiling wickedly, the intruder stepped sideways to grab the child...and was greatly surprised when the lad's mother emptied the gun into him, killing him on the spot.

In the U.K., Tony Martin, a farmer, received a "life sentence" when he used a shotgun to shoot one of two intruders who had broken into his home and subsequently threatened Martin with a raised crowbar. But the farmer had neglected to turn in the shotgun in when the country outlawed them, and ended up in prison whilst the other intruder was lionized by the media, even though both had criminal records and several of Martin's neighbors had been brutally assaulted in the past. Still, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We can't have people taking the law into their own hands." Yeah, even if the guy was going to smack you in the head with a crowbar! In the U.K. there was outrage, but not enough to save him from a life sentence. The surviving intruder was turned into a hero whilst the victim was turned into a hateful vigilante. As one great 19th century religious leader said, a people who lose the Spirit of God lose the ability to act in their own self interest.

I think that's true.